Black Panther Author Jesse Holland Discusses Police Violence In The Aftermath of The George Floyd Case

The following is a Q&A by Cecil Merkerson with Jesse Holland, author of Who Is The Black Panther? and Bowie, MD resident. The bestselling author discusses the issue of police violence through the lens of life in America and the fictional world of Wakanda, home of the Black Panther.

By Cecil Merkerson

PGS: Do you believe that Black men and women need to be superheroes especially when it comes to police in their communities, and explain why you think so, or if you think so?

Holland: Well, first of all, you shouldn't have to be a superhero to survive America. We know historically that being an African-American in the United States means that you have to be a

little more of everything just to be normal. You have to be a little more tolerant. You have to be a little more aware. You have to be a little more respectful. Sometimes you have to be a little angry. If being a superhero means you have to be more than everyone else, then yes. You sort of have to be a superhero in America to be black and to survive.

PGS: Do you believe that policing in a Black community has gotten worse in recent years, or has it always been close to the same but with the social media era, it has been broadcasted more frequently now?

Holland: I believe that it has always been a source of issue between the African American community and the police. I'm originally from Mississippi so I know the historical distrust between the police and the African American community and that distrust is well deserved. I think up until the last 10 years, or maybe even less, only then has the wider audience in America began to listen to what the African American community has been saying about policing issues and that has only happened because of the widespread use of cameras. I don't think it's gotten better or worse. I think that the rest of America is just now beginning to realize the things that the African American community has always known.

PGS: Was there a personal experience for you with the police?

Holland: As an African American male, I can tell you that there have been some issues that I've seen in my past, and some that I've seen in my adulthood. I think that many African American males can tell the same stories that I can--both of hearing and experiencing distrust from the police and sometimes abuse from the police. There are so many stories that are emblematic of the relationship between African Americans and the police that telling one more won't make a difference because we've all heard and some of us have experienced these stories. Historically, going back to the civil rights movement, to the killing of the three civil rights workers in Mississippi to the shooting of Medgar Evers, you can go down a whole list of incidents both that people have heard of, and some that they have not, to understand why there's been a historical distrust between the police and African American communities.

PGS: Going back to you shouldn't have to be a superhero to survive an ecnounter with the police, do you believe that more training, more new laws or additional funding will bring an end to police violence? Why/why not?

Holland: I think that there has to be a rethinking of policing in America, which historically was created in many places to be a check against African-American power. Whether that's bringing more minorities into the police force or whether that's retraining the police to understand what their role should be instead of what their role historically has been. Whether that means sometimes in some places it may perhaps even mean changing the rules of force for police.

Got Justice George Floyd by Brian Young.jpg

There are so many ideas out there. I can't tell you the best way. All I can tell you is that something has to be done or the current way of policing in America cannot survive. A unit like the police can never work without the trust of the people that it is supposed to police. What we have seen over the last 10, 15, 20 years as far back as the Jena 6 Case shows us that the way that things are going now is not sustainable.

PGS: Okay. What image do you think that Black Panther (or the black superhero), portrays to the masses and why is it important even though he's a fictional character?

Holland: Well, entertainment eventually becomes reality. We know that in the past that there were images of African-Americans used through literature, radio, and television. Those images became cemented in the minds of white Americans as to the reality of who African-Americans were-going back to the use of blackface and minstrel shows, going back to the use of African-Americans in propaganda films by the Klan.

We must have images of strong, African-American men and women in the world of superheroes, which is now the dominant form of entertainment not only in the United States but in the world. It's the highest-grossing form of entertainment. It is extremely important that we have these positive, strong roles to counteract some of the stereotypical roles that we still see African-Americans portrayed as in entertainment. I think it's very important that we have these strong black superheroes, so that not only African-Americans, but people of other races can see that we are more than the stereotypes that have been placed on us for the last 400 years.

PGS: Going back to the Marvel Universe one more time, how would the Wakandan leaders address police violence, cover-ups, corruption among empowered officials who abuse their people?

Holland: Well, first of all, this type of policing would never exist in Wakanda. They would be very shocked to see that the people who are paid and entrusted by their citizens are also sometimes the perpetrators of crimes against those same citizens. They would be shocked to even envision the fact that so-called peacekeepers would be some of the perpetrators of criminal violence but once they got over that shock, they would probably say that those in charge of protecting the innocent should never be accused of or guilty of perpetrating crimes against the innocent. They would find some way to ensure that that doesn't happen.

PGS: In your opinion, what things do you think black men need to do to survive in any scenario with the police? Is it a matter of being more respectful, being a little less angry? What precautionary measures do you think they need to take in any circumstance?

Holland: First of all, we shouldn't have to take any precautionary methods. We should feel as safe with the police as any white male in America to survive an encounter. I will tell you the same thing that many African-American men and women have told their children over the years is that your first obligation is to make it home alive. Our job is not to die unnecessarily. If that means that you have to surrender yourself to the police, if that means that you have to swallow an insult that you shouldn't have to swallow, your first obligation is to make sure you make it home to your parents and your loved ones alive. Everything after that can be handled at a later point.

PGS: Do you believe that African-American communities should be given back their policing tax dollars in order to form, train and enact their own local and regional police departments and agencies?

Holland: I’m not 100% sure if that’s the best idea or not. There are so many different ideas out there, some of which may work and some of which may not work. But what we do know because of Michael Brown, because of George Floyd, because of Tamir Rice and others is that the way things are going now is not sustainable. Whatever idea brings about change I’m an advocate for because what we have now is not sustainable. I have no idea what the proper solution is. There are so many different ideas out there. I'm hoping someone can come up with an idea that works. The only thing that we can be 100% sure of is that the way that things have been going over the last decade or so is not sustainable.

PGS: Do you believe that America can maintain its call for human rights in nations around the world in cases such as detained journalists, China's human rights violations, Russia's detained political leaders when police violence against American citizens go unpunished. Why or why not?

Holland: I was asked another version of that question this morning in a conversation with someone else. Can African-Americans talk about police abuse at the same time as they talk about Black on Black crimes, or why aren't African-Americans talking about black on black crime as much as they're talking about police abuse? I will tell you that my answer was: it's not like we can't multitask. It's not like we can't talk about police abuse and still care about black on black crime. It's not that America cannot talk about improving itself at the same time as we talk about how other countries also need to improve themselves. There is no, ‘we can't talk about the abuses in other countries until we deal with all of our own abuses.’ We can do both and we should do both.

PGS: Any other thoughts on this?

Holland: No, it's just that no one has all the answers, but not having all the answers doesn't mean that you don't need to look for the answers. One of the things that we're looking to do with these conversations is to perhaps come up with the answer. It doesn't mean that we will. One way to guarantee that you don't find an answer is not to talk about it. That's what we're looking to do. We're looking to have these conversations, so perhaps one day we can come up with the answer.